Spøtlight: Brazil Insurtech Special

In a Spøtlight Brazil Insurtech Special, Sønr Founder and CEO Matt Connolly sat down with Samy Hazan (CEO of Insurtech Brazil), Mauro Levi D’Ancona (Co-Founder and CEO of 180° Insurance), and Igor Mascarenhas (Co-Founder and CEO of Pier).

Matt, Samy, Mauro and Igor deep-dive into the amazing opportunities in Brazil thanks to new regulation, explore how their companies are addressing the low penetration rates in the country, and what it’s like building a business in an emerging market.

A huge thanks to Samy, Mauro and Igor for taking part!

Find out more about the companies on Sønr here:
Insurtech Brazil
180° Insurance
Pier

.

A full transcript of the interview is below:

Matt Connolly 0:08  

Hello, and welcome to a slightly unusual Spotlight series in the fact that we have three gentlemen here from Brazil. And all of these people have come through a random connection that we made with Samy, who is possibly the nicest, kindest, most generous Matt and InsurTech, globally, who happens to be out in Brazil, and has brought along Igor and Mauro into the conversation. So first of all, Samy, thank you very much for making today possible. It’s a pleasure to have all of you on board. Can we kick off, Samy, maybe can you give a quick introduction to you, and to your role in InsurTech, Brazil, and what you guys get up to that?

Samy Hazan 0:49  

Well, Matt, thank you very much for the compliments and for having us. Amazing. I’m a big fan of your work at Sønr. So, thank you for having us. I’m an insurance veteran. I have worked for several large insurance companies in Brazil, companies like Porto Seguro where I was head of corporate strategy, investor relation, then I moved to Sompo, Japan, I stayed there for seven years. Taking care of affinities life insurance, I left Sompo in 2018 and today, I have an innovation hub, basically supporting it and accelerating innovation to incumbents in the region. I work in Peru, in Colombia, and mainly in Brazil, of course. 

Matt Connolly 1:47  

Lovely, thank you, Samy. So, Mauro, can we jump to you? Co-founder and CEO of 180. And can you give us a little bit of insight into the business and how you came up with the business and where you guys are at in the company?

Mauro Levi 2:02  

Yeah, first of all, Matt, thank you very much for having me. And Samy, like you said, Matt, he’s the nicest guys. And it puts eager, and I’m in a tough spot here to try to be, you know, a little bit nice. I’m sure we are. But so thank you very much for having me here. 180 we have exactly one year here in Brazil, and I’m sure what we’ll get to discuss a little bit about what’s happening in Brazil, in terms of insurance, a little bit more macro. But what we believe, is now a great opportunity in Brazil and it’s happening throughout the world is a dispersion in distribution models, right? And that happens in many industries, even media and auto, in traditional media’s and traditional sectors and new sectors. And we believe that there’s a huge opportunity for that in Brazil. We have a b2b2c to see model, where we empower both companies that have great relationships with their clients, and today, they’re unable to sell insurance as part of their client relationship. We power them to offer great services, insurance to their clients and on the other hand, we also serve incumbents a great service, because in many parts, they’re not able, they don’t have the skill set to work alongside tech companies, high growth companies, or even big retailers that today need a lot of tech in what they’re offering, and maybe they don’t have the speed to serve them, or the skill set. So, we kind of serve both sides of the marketplace trying to bring insurance to the daily life of Brazilians through new distribution channels. 

Matt Connolly 3:44  

Super interesting, what an interesting position to be in as well, and what market context you must have around you to be able to operate. And so last but certainly not least, Igor from Pier. So again, co-founder and CEO, tell me tell me a little bit more about your business.

Igor Mascarenhas 4:01  

So first of all, thank you very, Samy for organize everything. Mauro, it’s a pleasure to talk again. And Matt, nice to meet you. So I co-founded with Pier we are a leading insurtech in Brazil, we have a full stack business. We design all the experience of the customer and direct to consumer, so we help the customer make a decision on purchasing the insurance and we have AI models to help the customers and all lifetime and we pay claims very quickly, we pay 25% of claims instantly up tp 10 seconds, the user received the money in the bank account. Our test is really creates a customer driven company with a full stack position will believe that in the long term, the last month very consistently, deliver high NPS 80 plus with hyper growth and sustainable, so we tried to redesign all the insurance value channels – we are full stack position. 

Matt Connolly 5:03  

Thank you, super interesting. Okay, so we’ve got Samy with incumbents, we’ve got Mauro on the distribution side, and we’ve got full stack over here. So superb, what a great mix – Samy, give me an insight into Brazil right now and I contextualize that with a lot of the work that we do with Sønr. I mean, it starts out very kind of US and north US, North America kind of focused, then there’s a lot of European activities. We’re based out of the UK, in terms of our head office, and there’s an awful lot of stuff going on in Asia, particularly in the Chinese market, then you’ve got the kind of the lesser known market. So we’ve gone into depth in the past in the Indian market, and we’ve done a lot of stuff there. But for us, like the LatAm market is still, and I’m saying to US globally, in the Insurtech scene, it’s a very unknown, untapped market, where is the market at and kind of what’s the opportunity there for the world of Insurtech and how mature are things getting?

Samy Hazan 6:03  

Great question, Matt. We are living in amazing times in terms of innovation, insurance innovation, as in other countries, insurance was lagging behind in terms of innovation. And I think one of the main drivers of this innovation is a new regulator. Just to give you an example, I was there in the time that the reinsurance was a monopoly of the state. And it took us 10 years to change this monopoly regulation. Now, in the last few years, we’ve got the sandbox regulation, that dropped the entry barriers that the market normally usually used to have. So now I mean, solvency issues, capital issues, now we’ve like with 15 times less capital, you can start up a new insurance company. Of course, limited in volumes, you know, it’s an experimental environment, but this is bringing a lot of innovation. So you have Pier as a very good example here, we used to have a lot of inflexibility in terms of product offering. 

Samy Hazan 7:24  

Now we have a lot of more flexibility to design to give modules, offerings, on demand insurance, personalized insurance, so I really think it’s the end of the one size fits all, that I used to live with in the past. So now we can do like personalized, so the environment is really very good. I feel that most investors that I’ve been talking to are bullish about Brazil. And as we were talking before, I mean low penetration in all business lines. Business Line, we also find concentration in terms of market share, in main in that was one of the reasons they read the Insurance authority is fostering the innovation and the objective in the end of the day, of course, is to double insurance penetration, which already is only 4% of GDP. So, the idea is to double it in the next five years. So, these are the main the main drivers. So, we are really, really excited about this flourishing innovation in our markets.

Matt Connolly 8:40  

Super interesting. And the Igor and from your perspective, I watched a video interview, you’re sitting on a panel, you’re talking about how underserved the market is, and the low penetration that insurance has had across that. Is that the influence behind you setting up a full stack? Or is that otherwise? And kind of what are the opportunities that you’re seeing for your business out there?

Igor Mascarenhas 9:04  

Exactly. If you see all lines in Brazil, under penetrated, only 30% of the fleet of cars has insurance in Brazil, less than 10% of houses, less than 5% of people have insurance in Brazil, life insurance in Brazil, so all the lines are under penetrated. And when you’re analyzing that, we can see two big reasons. The first one is education that people are not educated to buy insurance, something that people think if they think about insurance, they attract the risk. There’s this kind of thing [fear] in Brazil. So, the first part to be a full stack is really understand the purchaser moment. So, I want to control this moment to increasing our penetration in the under service. And the second part is really designing the products if you don’t design the products impossible selling the old products, in the best we have some lines in Brazil that the regulator’s say for the consumer don’t buy this insurance, because it’s a threat. 

So, we have to redesign the products, we design the way to deliver this product for the population. And you can, we only can do that as a full stack position. We handle the distribution channel, we design the product, we price the customers, we pay claims, we send information for the regulator, all the management policies, and the handle is made by us, we have  proprietary solutions for that. So we control of all the if they experience allow us deliver for the best customers, for instance, 70% of our customers don’t have insurance before peer. So we try to achieve for the service. It’s because that we redesign a full stack position, design the product, controlling all the experience and educate the consumer to buy our products.

Matt Connolly 11:00  

Really interesting. So, I spoke with Daniel Schreiber from lemonade just before his IPO and I remember vividly the timing, because I asked him about any likelihood that they will go to the public market and IPO and he completely avoided the question and then the week later they, they floated. What he was talking about is two things. He talks about the importance of digital substrates, which is a phrase he’s referenced many times in interviews and that building from the ground up, so Igor exactly as you’re saying about your own company. But then he’s also talking about the lack of full stack Insurtech place in the market., and when we look at the global market, and certainly in the kind of maybe the more developed insurance markets, what we’re seeing is we’re seeing a very small percentage of full stack, like disruptors if we’re going to use the term, right, so going head to head with the mainstage, and the rest of those businesses being enablers.

And it’s a really brave path, but potentially, if you get this right, and from everything we’ve seen about your business you are and you’re going in the right direction, it’s going to be a very valuable market, of course for you as well and especially with the growth of that. And Mauro, let me let me jump to you in terms of that kind of distribution plate because one of the big trends that we’re seeing this quarter and we publish an InsurTech briefings to the market about the trends that we’re witnessing and one of the key things that we’re focused on for this quarter so from Q3 is embedded insurance. It’s absolutely the potential game changer to the market. And, you know, we were chatting we’ve seen, you know, the obvious is Amazon out in the marketplace, who, in India provide car insurance through Amazon pay. They’ve got their kind of healthcare business in the US. And in the US and the UK now we’ve seen commercial insurance rollouts, and is this going to be following the same suit in? Is embedded going to play the same role in LatAm? Is that that a game changer for you guys and changing the landscape?

Mauro Levi 13:14  

Yeah, well, we certainly believe so. So, if you look at Brazilians, we have a very, very high penetration of internet, and smartphones among the highest in the world, which is unbelievable. There’s a recent report by Athletica that says that Brazilian’s spend on average 10 hours a day on the internet, being that on their smartphone, or their computers, so it’s a huge part of the everyday life, 65% of Brazilians. And you can do everything here in Brazil through your app or your computer as most places in the world. But, the experience between trend is not that good. And you know, so you can buy a house through your smartphone, but it’s hard for you to apart from Pier to get auto insurance through your app – so what we do is, although we’re not a full stack, we try to control the entire customer experience.

So we have partnerships, one that we launched most recently is Park Your Car and this is an app that is present in 11 cities in Brazil and insures your belongings inside the car for one hour. And so what this app had told us before his book, I wanted to have a product and to what Samy was saying, prior, insurance companies only gave me a monthly coverage that was super expensive. You’re parking your car, you don’t want to spend 100 a month. You’re worried when you’re parking your car that your items might get stolen inside your car. So, what we did here is the 49 cents insurance that you know, you click on your app and then you receive everything through your email, so you check the boxes and all the regulatory requirements. But it’s like when the person is parking their car, they’re buying the one-hour insurance is the first one-hour insurance in Brazil. 

So, for us, that’s kind of like we wanted to with this insurance – kind of open everyone’s mind here in Brazil, like, what insurance really can be, you know, it can be something simple, cheap, accessible, that people understand that to Igor’s point, you get paid quickly, that you can trust and there’s no blueprints, when you actually need to use it or fineprints. So we do believe that, you know, since Brazilians are really connected through their smartphones and they have great relationships in many sectors with great tech companies, great retailers, great whatever, that you know, they should be consuming and insurance and it should be play a bigger part of their daily life. So, we think this is a huge opportunity here in Brazil.

Samy Hazan 16:01  

I think the embedded insurance will solve the distribution gap and of course, the protection gap, because it’s much easier to access the population that doesn’t have access to insurance so far. So that’s it’s very promising, absolutely.

Matt Connolly 16:24  

And then looking, so stay with that for a second. So, looking at the role of incumbents, how is that going to change the incumbents in the LatAm market? What is it? Because if they’re not if they’re now not the ones who are selling the insurance, it pushes them to a more of a back-office role, right? Are they opening their eyes to embedded, the opportunities of embedded? Are they threatened by that? Is it business as usual for these guys?

Samy Hazan 16:56  

In a way, it’s business as usual. Most of the incumbents don’t an already for embedded insurance because of legacy systems. So, this is one of my challenges is to do this digital transformation that you need to have the capacity to offer on a scale of basis. But I think we will have new entrance in the market with a full stack proposition offering embedded insurance. Of course, you have the traditional affinity companies that are specialized and are more ready. I mean, I’m talking about the Chubs and the Zurich’s though they are already, they have already a hand in the affinity market  and the affinity market should transform itself in the on an embedded insurance value proposition in the next few years.

Matt Connolly 18:02  

Interesting.

Mauro Levi 18:03  

I would add to that, you know, if it’s not even they won for insurance disruption in Brazil, you know, Igor was there in these years, he got there, like before it all started. And now it’s like the first minute of the first day.

Matt Connolly 18:18  

How does that reflect on you guys? Because I’m totally with you – from everything that I’m witnessing as an observer of the market, how does that feel? Does that feel like people are expressing more interest, there’s more inbound investment, other communities setting up? What does it look like for you guys?

Mauro Levi 18:35  

Yeah, so I think, from the perspective that Samy was saying, like, this is all too new to really bother the insurance and for them to have a plan, you know, so I think that’s at least my perception. And then I think from the investor side, there’s tremendous interest because they’ve seen, you know, what happened in the financial sector in Brazil, where you had extremely, you still have very concentrated system, but you had a regulator that worked in an opening up and now you have a full range of very successful FinTech companies, being in payments, digital bank, etc. So now, when people look at insurance investors, and they’re like, okay, this is a sector that’s clearly below its potential, it’s clearly not serving customers the high quality standards that people demand nowadays. So, there’s a huge opportunity. In auto direct to consumer unit embedded. So, I think from and like I said, but still the first minute of the first day, so you have you know, you got the first Insurtech of this cohort coming out and it’s very exciting but I’m sure that there’s still a lot to come be it from here and there’s going to be like a bunch of other really interesting Insurtech Because it’s still like really the beginning-

Matt Connolly  19:57  

So like any beginnings it’s like pushing Water up a hill if that translates, right? It’s tough work for you guys because the markets not ready, the regulators not ready, the incumbents aren’t ready, potential customer aren’t ready, it’s tough times. How have you found that because I mean one of the this the traits of a successful entrepreneur is resilience, right? It’s having thick skin being able to just keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing, and Igor let’s jump to you because again I heard him in the same interview as listening to you talk about, it’s tough you had challenges seemingly at the early stages your business around whether you are complaint here, complaint there and almost kind of threatens on route to setting up your business – how’s your journey been as an entrepreneur setting up this company? Is it everything you hoped for?

Igor Mascarenhas 20:50  

It’s a great question. It’s a great question. When program is started, I combine program thinking I would like to select the most intelligent guys and after he started icon and they say I had a threshold of intelligence that I have to push, but after that, I would like to select and pick up the most the determined. We started here in 2017 and I personally explained to our regulator about venture capital about startups, Insurtech I would say almost one year and we don’t do nothing, nothing. We didn’t launched our products. I launched in 2018, our seats around I have to spend the health in lawyers and the audits, I received a crime in our investigation, I received prosecutions, it’s incredible art to create insurance carrier in Brazil, probably most difficult to create insurance carrier then a bank in Brazil, almost three years, we can really receive our license, we are the first insurance carrier, digital insurance in Brazil. And this process is so hard, it’s so difficult. You have to touch your customers and your investors, the marketing the employees, the regulator, the competitors so it’s a huge journey. 

It’s very difficult. But it’s so pleasure when you see the consumer talk about Pier, the people asking, Will you marry me because your experience so great that you’d like to connect with you in my life when you receive a paper letter in your office because the consumer loves your experience. When we pay a claim and a smartphone for a customer and the police find the day’s much more fun in the consumer goal personally in our office, we sayi this smartphone is for you, because you pay me so honestly so quickly. This smartphone when you receive this kind of feedback of the consumer who say I’m the correct path, this is the most important fuel to start in starting again. So, for me is amazing journey is so difficult, but the pleasure is amazing. 

And now we have like more than 6000 customers, we have the great investors in our cap table, we have 150 employees believing that you will really create the largest Insurtech insurance covering Latin America will be a global benchmark in AI first insurance. So, when you see this kind of feedback, you say, we are in the correct path. But it’s so difficult when I talk with new entrapreneurs I say thinking about mental health because anyone talk about me in the mental health in the challenge is so huge. I am like an athlete of generating value. My personal training think I am entrepreneur, my nutritionist, my therapists, all these professionals helping me to be a better entrepreneur. So it’s very difficult very pleasurable when you feed back all this information from the consumers, investors, employees, you say you’re having the correct path. 

Matt Connolly 24:31  

Super Insightly. Thank you for sharing that. Mauro, what about you so more recent business, but I love that I love that entrepreneur’s theory, right? So, what about for you over the last year or so?

Mauro Levi 24:40  

Yeah, so prior to 180 I spent five years at new bank, which is one of the largest digital banks in the world. And I joined when it was you know, 100,000 customers and by the time left it was more than 30 million. All this is not due to me, but I was part of the whole journey, and something that was very strong a nubuck. And we tried really hard to do here 180 was this ownership mentality, right? So you know, you are owner, you’re not renters your owners. And so, ready for the prior to 180, it was taking a lot of punches, and not going down. So, why I knew because no one wanted to open a bank account for us, because, you know, we’re competing against the banks. I had to go to streets or branches and like, wiggle my way to opening an account and then bring the CFO and then the branch manager, like, how much are you going to deposit we’re like, 80 million AI’s, and his eyes are like this. So, we had to  fight against the system, but it’s rewarding. 

And if you really are purpose driven, and you think you’re going to,make a huge impact in people’s lives. And so it’s not about increasing penetration by 1%. It’s, you know, by doing that, by bringing, like, products that people really like, and here 180, I was asked recently, how would I define the first year as a startup, and it’s chaos, but you need to embrace chaos. and the only certainty you have is that any plan that you make, you have to change it at least five times a day. So, it is, and it’s tough, but it’s rewarding, if you think that you’re creating something really different. And in the end, you’re going to impact people in a positive way, and they’re going to have their coverage, and they’re going to be happy. And then, they’re going to tell you, their friends –  you don’t think of insurance as exciting, but if you have a great experience, they’re going to say hey, I had a great experience, I parked my car that was broken into and I WhatsApp’d [the insurance] and I had my claims paid very, very fast. We think insurance is very exciting, and everyone should be excited. You take a lot of blows when you’re starting your business, especially in a country like Brazil, that’s not for amateurs, but it’s extremely rewarding. it’s been a great first year, I still have hair, it’s all white. 

Matt Connolly 27:22  

You’ll catch up with Sammy soon. 

Samy Hazan 27:26  

You are already.

Mauro Levi 27:27  

Samy is our benchmark. Yeah. It’s a tough journey, but it’s rewarding.

Matt Connolly 27:32  

Sure. And but also there’s a connection to that, with the role of culture within the incumbents and their ability to change and so Samy, maybe a few words from you around the work that you’re doing to help those incumbents to stay relevant, stay competitive, thrive in the future. I don’t know really the right choice of words for that but and maybe explain a little bit more about how you are able to help and work with them because you seemingly have a wonderful CV and track record personally and a lot of experience and exposure now and connection to the Insurtech space. So how do you bring that to bear in the in the relationships that you have with the incumbents in the market?

Samy Hazan 28:16  

Yeah, good question Matt. I think the incumbents have a very attentive to innovation for example I’m doing innovation programs for sea level so we had a Tel Aviv program in last May which was very successful where we showed a lot of case studies within AI I mean very focused on insurance we are discussing with you guys China and UK for recently, I’ve been doing a lot of in company lectures, workshops, we’ve see levels, you know, bringing a lot of use cases. One of my big projects right now is to create a platform to empower brokers, traditional brokers in the digital space. So it’s a multi-channel across communication platform that we will allow broker to communicate for Tik Tok through Facebook, through Instagram, including selling it’s a very nice tool, havin another project with a big bang in predictive data analytics, very interesting case also accelerated underwriting for the first tire carrier and they’re all very open and I was thinking during the conversation with Igor and Mauro, we are really in day one, but from the time that the incumbents feel that they are losing market share or that I mean, they will react very quickly which is the natural market reaction. But of course, startups have the advantage of the agility of not having a legacy system. So, when you have a legacy system, and then a legacy culture is really a culture an issue of changing behavior and changing culture and changing all your infrastructure. This will happen slowly I mean, with time of course.

Matt Connolly 30:33  

That’s because we work in the world of insurance, nothing moves too quickly. Right?

Samy Hazan 30:37  

Yeah, absolutely.

Matt Connolly 30:39  

I don’t know, if any of you guys have a view on this, but I was a guest speaker on a webinar and there were representatives from big companies, as you would expect, who lead certain divisions or leading large teams, and then, and I found myself I was delivering, you know, the investment into the market, the growth we’re seeing in here and there and it’s all the same – and the year on year growth, and the year on year this and year on year that, but my God, nothing’s changed quickly and I was saying the same stuff five years ago, slightly different numbers. And I’m like, speaking to seemingly the same crowd about the same stuff, just like when is change going to happen?

So I’ve got a really interesting – I believe it’s interesting – my viewpoint on actually what, with the exception from the Lemonades and the Daniel Schreibers of the world, the full stack carriers. What I truly believe is that the competitive landscape is going to be much more between the insurers who do not innovate and the insurance who do innovate. And I think we’re already starting to see it sort of a divergence in performance lines between those businesses, right? So it’s almost to the point where when the strategic impulse to change is sufficiently great. So when the need to change is enough, that they won’t have the innovation muscle or capability to respond, because they haven’t been experimenting with anything, whereas those who have been innovating, now already know what doesn’t work so they can double down on what does work. So I think the main competition, what we’re going to see is between those who do innovate and those who don’t innovate, but also then the external.

So to Mauro’s point, the retail is the those coming into the space, whether it’s from banking, whether it’s from, you know, other sectors who are playing that embedded card. So,  I think what you’re going to have is you’re going to have some really interesting kind of reflection of that of the Piers in the world who are limited, but when they work, they work beautifully well, right? And we’ve seen that probably one or two in each of the established markets and Igor, I assume the same going to be for Pier from everything you’ve said, and I’ve read, but I’d be interesting to think how quickly it’s going to change for you guys, right? So those established markets have been so slow. But now you guys are coming to a new space where you are the 1%. But I feel like you’re going to get to the 50 to 100 much, much more quickly than those other markets. But I don’t know if you if you have that same kind of global perspective on what else is going on out there, what are you seeing who you connected with and just how quickly you expect things to change in your market. I’d love to know that from LatAm and also more locally, Brazil. That’s a thought or a reflection to any of you guys, if you want to pick it up.

Mauro Levi 33:53  

I have a quick point, I would like to comment on that Matt, which is I think a great analogy here is like when I heard once talking about the razor market in the US, where you had you know, Gillette, with 80% of market share, you’re like wow, Gillette is amazing. But then if you looked at people who are switching brands, or buying for the first time, how many are buying Gillette and you know, it was like Dollar Shave Club and these new brands had you know, 90%, so because insurance market is big, but the marginal changes take a long time to impact the whole you know, so I would say like, in Brazil, people who never bought a car insurance, how many are buying Pier? For me that’s like, the key question. People who never bought a one-hour insurance in Brazil and are buying we have 100% share, but you know, like, that’s where the change is happening and so I think that you know, when you look at the big picture, you can say, well, yeah, you know, it’s still too small year over a year. It’s not meaningful, but then when you look at the margin, and maybe Gillette today in the US has, you know, 30% market share, I don’t know. But it started with, like people who are buying for the first time or switching for the first time. 

So, I think that’s where we’re looking, we start, like at the edges, and you know, soon will be meaningful. And I think there’s a great quote that the V from Nubank uses it a lot from Gandhi, which is, ‘first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win’. And I think we’re maybe like, they don’t even ignore us, because maybe they don’t even know we exist. And obviously, you know, you may pick up a fight here or there, like, Igor has picked up a few. But, in the big picture, they’re still ignoring us. So that’s how I see like, when you look in Brazil, and how changes are happening. So, it’s first slowly and then suddenly.

Matt Connolly 35:56  

Love it. Okay, last question for all of you, and I think it’s, so I’d be really interested in it, and feel free not to give out anything particularly sensitive on this one, but just kind of reflection for your own business. Just that that kind of entrepreneurial ambition of where you think you’re going to get to where you want to climb your business. I’m not after the billion-dollar valuation asnwer, it’s a bit more the kind of what is the impact that you want to have on the market, on the global market, local market. And where do you want to take your business? And maybe Igor if we can start with you, I think that’d be super interesting.

Igor Mascarenhas 36:34  

Great question, I will use a quote as well. There’s a quote from Bill Gates, who says, ‘most people overestimate what they can do one year, but they completely underestimate what they can do in 10 years’, and I think several times when the inconvenience when people talk about insurance, they think about one year, two years, oh, I can digitilise this process and it will reduce our GNA in one point percent. It’s not about that. It’s about how the society is changing. How you identify this kind of trend as Mauro said in the next 10 years, 30% of the PNC insurance will be embedded insurance, this kind of trend you have to understand and understand the people behavior for us why we deliver an amazing set, an amazing NPS because we believe only satisfaction creates  long term satisfaction completely voluntary, in this term for long term made completely difference. Because if the people love your company or brand, they are so connected, all the products will be the same company. 

Now, if you don’t understand the people behavior, see the long term the next 10 years how the insurance markets, you change it. If you see the globally, the leaders have like 3 or 4% of the market share in the global. If you see companies like Google, they have more than 50%, 60% market share your market. So, this sector is completely pulverized in the world is completely concentrated in the regions. So, we have to understand how the people works in place to deliver, leaders locally, and leaders globally that you don’t have leaders globally talking. So, for us is the 10 years, I have people ANC in the next five years, if I do that, we will change it. If not, I won’t do that. So, all the time you think the really long-term journey, because in this society are competing and you can create a leader in local way, but probably create a global benchmark, because the globally talking all the insurances is smaller, they have like 3-4% of the market share. So, for this the long term vision and the long term.

Matt Connolly 38:56  

Mauro, what about you and your business? 

Mauro Levi 39:00  

Well, I think like I said, we’re still insurance is day one, we’re still in our day one here, and we just completed one year. And I think Igor sport is very good. Like, if we look back, we wouldn’t think we would have achieved so much in one year and we’re definitely underestimating how much impact we can have, you know, longer term horizon. And I think, you know, when we look at the opportunity here, we call that ’BHAG’ or ‘big hairy ambitious goals, which is like we want to transform how insurance is distributed and consumed in Brazil. And you know, those are big words, but we have to start somewhere. We’re on to what we think is a very good start, but we’re far from having solved you know, so many challenges that will be vital. So we want to be that player that powers when you want to have you as a consumer in Brazil, want to have, you know, the best digital experience and insurance, we want to be powering that product. So that’s kind our vision of where we want to be in a couple of years. And, you know, let’s see how it goes and so far, it’s been very exciting.

Matt Connolly  40:19  

I love it. I wish you both of you guys a huge amount of success for the future. And Samy, let’s wrap up and finish with you, if that’s okay, so Insurtech Brazil in 10 years time – tell me what’s the journey from now to there? What are you hoping for, from the association that you’re setting up and you’re building there?

Samy Hazan  40:42  

Well Matt my ambition in five years is to be among one of the most relevant persons in terms of digital transformation for the traditional market for the increments. So now I am also in day one, or maybe even before but I have, for example, I have 5 POCs in place, starting POCs these are meant to be very relevant projects for very large insurance companies, so my idea is to really invest in this area, so I’m doing a lot of great connections around the globe. And in five years, I want to be one of the most relevant persons in terms of digital information for traditional insurance companies. 

Matt Connolly  41:36  

Love it. Thank you Igor, Mauro, it’s been an absolute pleasure and honestly as an entrepreneur to entrepreneur, just all the best of the businesses. It’s brilliant. Samy, I still am afraid that the nicest, kindest, most generous Matt in the history of tech community knows like on either of you, chaps, but thank you for bringing together today for introducing me to these two great founders. And yeah, look, I’m excited for the whole of LatAm. We recently did our future 50 Americas It was wonderful to see businesses from South America feature in that and I think it’s a wonderfully exciting place to have it on the global stage. And I can’t wait to once we’re opened up with travel a little bit more and COVID settled down to get myself out there and enjoy some time. And hey, you never know even we were talking before the call about as approached for a house swap by somebody in Brazil. You never know. Maybe we’ll take him up on that. And it’s been some proper time out there and meet you guys personally. So thank you very much for today. Let’s stay in touch Samy, we always will-

Samy Hazan  42:43  

Absolutely you will have a lot of good news from LatAm, from now on, I guarantee.